Posted Jul 21, 2008 at 12:49PM by Victor B.
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Hacks & Exploits,
Homebrew Development
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Bushing
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 Here's an update for you folks related to Bushing's potential exploit for the Wii. According to Bushing, a Nintendo representative has contacted Bushing regarding the exploit and they're going to go into talks to resolve the issue. The comment in question here refers to the twelfth comment on the post, where Bushing states the following: (Insert a polite reply here from a real person at Nintendo, indicating that they received my message and will reply further shortly.) (No, I won’t be posting any other correspondence with them.) For those of you who missed the original announcement, linked below, Bushing found an exploit that could potentially allow users to find a way to run pirated games or game backups on unmodified Wii units. Now, whether or not this exploit gets patched is dependent on the efforts of Bushing and the engineers at Nintendo. We'll find out soon enough if they're able to patch the exploit. Till then, sit tight. Related Articles:
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[Via HackMii (Bushing's Blog)]
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11 Jumps
Wii homebrew - Custom IOS38 rev15
4 Jumps
Wii homebrew - MPlayer CE v0.76
2 Jumps
Wii homebrew - Gecko OS v1.9.3
1 Jumps
Wii homebrew - SDL MAME Wii v0.4
43 Comments
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by SageChaozu - 2008-07-21 |
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» NOA Representative
I think it is really cool that NOA finally responded back to Bushing but I think something is strange about this. I noticed on Bushing's site where he posted the reply that there was two things that confused me about this NOA Rep. The first thing is that he responded with a gmail account when I expect a person from Nintendo to respond with a nintendo email (ie. @nintendo.com or @noa.com). Another strange thing is that the guy's name was Tyson Green. I searched around to see if that name was legit with Nintendo and my results only returned a Tyson Green that works with Bungie (Halo Series). I don't know what this means or if Bushing masked it so we will not send hate mail to the guy but it seems very very strange to me. I just hope this rep is legit and not an imposter.
Anyhow, I really admire what Bushing is doing. It is a very mature decision to be anti-piracy. It shows respect for the developers that put their effort into making these products. Besides, we don't want the wii to be like the dreamcast.... ;_;
I think it is really cool that NOA finally responded back to Bushing but I think something is strange about this. I noticed on Bushing's site where he posted the reply that there was two things that confused me about this NOA Rep. The first thing is that he responded with a gmail account when I expect a person from Nintendo to respond with a nintendo email (ie. @nintendo.com or @noa.com). Another strange thing is that the guy's name was Tyson Green. I searched around to see if that name was legit with Nintendo and my results only returned a Tyson Green that works with Bungie (Halo Series). I don't know what this means or if Bushing masked it so we will not send hate mail to the guy but it seems very very strange to me. I just hope this rep is legit and not an imposter.
Anyhow, I really admire what Bushing is doing. It is a very mature decision to be anti-piracy. It shows respect for the developers that put their effort into making these products. Besides, we don't want the wii to be like the dreamcast.... ;_;
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Re: Victor B. (QJ. NET Staff) - 2008-07-21 |
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» I think that's not the representative...
That first post wasn't the representative. He doesn't actually show the email from the representative in the article, but mentions it in the 12th comment, as noted above.
That first post wasn't the representative. He doesn't actually show the email from the representative in the article, but mentions it in the 12th comment, as noted above.
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by neomew - 2008-07-21 |
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» spy for nintendo
hopefully nintendo will fix it forever
muahahahahahaha
hopefully nintendo will fix it forever
muahahahahahaha
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by Goglu666 - 2008-07-21 |
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» Good Move
It's a good move from Bushing and a better one from Nintendo.
They could have replied that using such a thing is illegal and send lawyers at him, claiming Intellectual property breach and all this legal maze where you can loose everyone in.
It's a great step into good relashionship towards Game manufacturer and the User Created community. Because homebrew actually make a console better, it's not intended for piracy at it's base. And if homebrew devs also helps by locking such possibilities on the console and in their homebrew, we might eventually get a new generation of console where user created content will be available at large and with more than just level editing.
It's a good move from Bushing and a better one from Nintendo.
They could have replied that using such a thing is illegal and send lawyers at him, claiming Intellectual property breach and all this legal maze where you can loose everyone in.
It's a great step into good relashionship towards Game manufacturer and the User Created community. Because homebrew actually make a console better, it's not intended for piracy at it's base. And if homebrew devs also helps by locking such possibilities on the console and in their homebrew, we might eventually get a new generation of console where user created content will be available at large and with more than just level editing.
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Re: Stinky_1 - 2008-07-21 |
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» wiiware
If games like "defend your castle" can be released on wii ware then there is NO reason why any homebrew dev could not release their software as a wiiware title as well. It was created for that purpose. So, if I was nintendo I would see ANY homebrew as an "out" from using that service.
I am sure there is not much nintendo can do legally to go after Bushing. He bought a wii, hooked up some probes to it, sniffed out the communications and assembled it together to find flaws in the coding. That is well within his rights as a wii owner.
His creation of TP exploit is entirely his code, written by him (and a few others) and used on his system. Because he is the owner of the copyright, he is allowed to distribute as he sees fit. If others decide to run it on their wii as well there is still nothing ninty can do.
IF on the other hand he was behind the creation of such tools as WAD installers, ISO loaders, Drive Chips, or other such hard and software he can certainly be in legal trouble. Since he is not, ninty has NOTHING they can do. They can talk to him and get the info he has, or they can not. Its obviously in nintendos best interest to at least fly him out, have a chat with him and see what he knows about it. Maybe give him a tour of nintendo headquarters and then leave with a hand shake.
Is that NOT the same thing that happend with TMBinc and Microsoft when they discovered an exploit in the 360?? This I would not expect to be any different.
I also think its a bit suspect about where the email came from. But I dont really care one way or another. I dont plan to update to 3.3 if possible. SO any patch they come out with wont affect me. By then they will figure out how to patch the new IOS that fixes the bug, remove the fix, and leave my system wide open for other usefull apps.
If games like "defend your castle" can be released on wii ware then there is NO reason why any homebrew dev could not release their software as a wiiware title as well. It was created for that purpose. So, if I was nintendo I would see ANY homebrew as an "out" from using that service.
I am sure there is not much nintendo can do legally to go after Bushing. He bought a wii, hooked up some probes to it, sniffed out the communications and assembled it together to find flaws in the coding. That is well within his rights as a wii owner.
His creation of TP exploit is entirely his code, written by him (and a few others) and used on his system. Because he is the owner of the copyright, he is allowed to distribute as he sees fit. If others decide to run it on their wii as well there is still nothing ninty can do.
IF on the other hand he was behind the creation of such tools as WAD installers, ISO loaders, Drive Chips, or other such hard and software he can certainly be in legal trouble. Since he is not, ninty has NOTHING they can do. They can talk to him and get the info he has, or they can not. Its obviously in nintendos best interest to at least fly him out, have a chat with him and see what he knows about it. Maybe give him a tour of nintendo headquarters and then leave with a hand shake.
Is that NOT the same thing that happend with TMBinc and Microsoft when they discovered an exploit in the 360?? This I would not expect to be any different.
I also think its a bit suspect about where the email came from. But I dont really care one way or another. I dont plan to update to 3.3 if possible. SO any patch they come out with wont affect me. By then they will figure out how to patch the new IOS that fixes the bug, remove the fix, and leave my system wide open for other usefull apps.
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Re: ISOHaven - 2008-07-21 |
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» WTF!?!?!?!?!
That's not entire true. Performing any action that circumvents intended protection of a copyrighted system is a federal crime in the US and many other countries.
"to "circumvent a technological measure" means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner"
"or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate"
Just because you buy a product that doesn't mean you can do whatever you want to, to it.
Just because you buy a gas tank, that doesn't mean you can build a bomb out of it.
Just because you buy "stuff" from a grocery store doesn't mean you can make meth.
Yes, those are all the exact same thing. Consumer goods CAN HAVE additional laws tact on to them. Don't like it? Start voting!!!
"Because he is the owner of the copyright"
What copyright? He doesn't own any copyrights on anything. Show us his registration filing numbers.
That's not entire true. Performing any action that circumvents intended protection of a copyrighted system is a federal crime in the US and many other countries.
"to "circumvent a technological measure" means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner"
"or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate"
Just because you buy a product that doesn't mean you can do whatever you want to, to it.
Just because you buy a gas tank, that doesn't mean you can build a bomb out of it.
Just because you buy "stuff" from a grocery store doesn't mean you can make meth.
Yes, those are all the exact same thing. Consumer goods CAN HAVE additional laws tact on to them. Don't like it? Start voting!!!
"Because he is the owner of the copyright"
What copyright? He doesn't own any copyrights on anything. Show us his registration filing numbers.
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Re: neomew - 2008-07-21 |
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» who really cares
i think we will all be better off with no wii homebrew at all
i think we will all be better off with no wii homebrew at all
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Re: Mister Common Sense - 2008-07-22 |
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» Who cares about laws?
Most laws only protect government and corporations anyway.
"Just because you buy a product that doesn't mean you can do whatever you want to, to it."
Really? These laws can't be enforced most of the time. Not unless you're an idiot and start a large scale business modifying consoles or something.
"Just because you buy a gas tank, that doesn't mean you can build a bomb out of it."
A gas tank wouldn't make a good bomb. Gasoline burns quickly, but is not explosive unless it's a fine vapor. Get yourself some nitroglyceryn and toluene and BAM! You have TNT.
"Just because you buy "stuff" from a grocery store doesn't mean you can make meth."
No, it takes much more than grocery store items to make Meth. Anhydrous ammonia is a key ingredient and only available at a co-op or something.
You FAIL at even making decent examples of what you're trying to prove.
Most laws only protect government and corporations anyway.
"Just because you buy a product that doesn't mean you can do whatever you want to, to it."
Really? These laws can't be enforced most of the time. Not unless you're an idiot and start a large scale business modifying consoles or something.
"Just because you buy a gas tank, that doesn't mean you can build a bomb out of it."
A gas tank wouldn't make a good bomb. Gasoline burns quickly, but is not explosive unless it's a fine vapor. Get yourself some nitroglyceryn and toluene and BAM! You have TNT.
"Just because you buy "stuff" from a grocery store doesn't mean you can make meth."
No, it takes much more than grocery store items to make Meth. Anhydrous ammonia is a key ingredient and only available at a co-op or something.
You FAIL at even making decent examples of what you're trying to prove.
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Re: ISOHaven - 2008-07-22 |
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» WTF!?!?!?!?!
"Who cares about laws?"
HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!! Is that why stealing software is ok to you?
"Most laws only protect government and corporations anyway."
Wrong!
"Really? These laws can't be enforced most of the time. Not unless you're an idiot and start a large scale business modifying consoles or something."
Gee, really? You mean someone will only SPEND MONEY to prosecute you if it's worth THE MONEY? Wow, you sur ar a smart un!
"Just because you buy a gas tank, that doesn't mean you can build a bomb out of it."
"A gas tank wouldn't make a good bomb."
Want to bet? Pack that thing full of fertilizer....I'll stop there. Again, your ignorance has caused you to fail.
"Gasoline burns quickly, but is not explosive unless it's a fine vapor."
There's that small box thinking I can always count on you for.
"Get yourself some nitroglyceryn and toluene and BAM! You have TNT."
Moron. Please, do as such. We would all love to see you blow yourself up. Also, I think you meant "nitroglycerin".
"No, it takes much more than grocery store items to make Meth."
No, it doesn't. As usual your ignorance fails you.
http://dadtalk.typepad.com/dadtalk/2005/02/caffeine_is_not.html
http://www.kci.org/meth_info/faq_meth.htm
"You FAIL at even making decent examples of what you're trying to prove."
Read above moron, as always YOU are the only one failing.
"Who cares about laws?"
HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!! Is that why stealing software is ok to you?
"Most laws only protect government and corporations anyway."
Wrong!
"Really? These laws can't be enforced most of the time. Not unless you're an idiot and start a large scale business modifying consoles or something."
Gee, really? You mean someone will only SPEND MONEY to prosecute you if it's worth THE MONEY? Wow, you sur ar a smart un!
"Just because you buy a gas tank, that doesn't mean you can build a bomb out of it."
"A gas tank wouldn't make a good bomb."
Want to bet? Pack that thing full of fertilizer....I'll stop there. Again, your ignorance has caused you to fail.
"Gasoline burns quickly, but is not explosive unless it's a fine vapor."
There's that small box thinking I can always count on you for.
"Get yourself some nitroglyceryn and toluene and BAM! You have TNT."
Moron. Please, do as such. We would all love to see you blow yourself up. Also, I think you meant "nitroglycerin".
"No, it takes much more than grocery store items to make Meth."
No, it doesn't. As usual your ignorance fails you.
http://dadtalk.typepad.com/dadtalk/2005/02/caffeine_is_not.html
http://www.kci.org/meth_info/faq_meth.htm
"You FAIL at even making decent examples of what you're trying to prove."
Read above moron, as always YOU are the only one failing.
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by emcp - 2008-07-21 |
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» thank
god
atleast some people talk sense unlike people at the previous article
ah well the guy is looking out for homebrew and homebrew only, hopefully nintendo might just help the scene a bit
good relations are everything
god
atleast some people talk sense unlike people at the previous article
ah well the guy is looking out for homebrew and homebrew only, hopefully nintendo might just help the scene a bit
good relations are everything
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Re: neomew - 2008-07-21 |
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» no
i hope they dont
muahahah
i hope they dont
muahahah
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Re: Katagi - 2008-07-22 |
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» XD
Why Hallo thar EMCP. May I ask who those people may be?
Why Hallo thar EMCP. May I ask who those people may be?
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by Stewies - 2008-07-21 |
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» & Brian
Hmmm, this neomew is quite the character with his sinister Bowser-like laugh. Any who, on the topic of Iso loaders, I really acknowledge Bushing's effort to get this bug fixed up however, would still like to get virtual console games (or basically everything before the Wii) at my own accord. So as long as Wii games remain impervious to the pirates...
Victory is ours!
Hmmm, this neomew is quite the character with his sinister Bowser-like laugh. Any who, on the topic of Iso loaders, I really acknowledge Bushing's effort to get this bug fixed up however, would still like to get virtual console games (or basically everything before the Wii) at my own accord. So as long as Wii games remain impervious to the pirates...
Victory is ours!
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Re: neomew - 2008-07-21 |
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» hello
this neomew
also lets nintendo know about any new wiibrew's lol
muahahah
this neomew
also lets nintendo know about any new wiibrew's lol
muahahah
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by Stinky_1 - 2008-07-21 |
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» ......
copyright was maybe the wrong word. He is the one who wrote the code, so he is the one who has the rights to the code.
I dont live in the US, so I am not totally up on what the "laws" are there. The laws where I live are about to change so its illegal to listen to the radio even unless I keep a tally of what is played so I can send my $1 to each artist they play.
Also, I think I am allowed to build a bomb with gasoline. I am NOT allowed to conspire to "USE" the bomb, or actually perform the act of using it. The problem is, no one is a mind reader, so its hard to decide if I ever intended on using the thing or not. So in most cases they assume I would only build the bomb with the intent to use it, so they use the existence of the bomb to PROVE my intent.
Either way. If I am NOT allowed to do what I want with hardware that I buy why is it that Nintendo is NOT able to force me to update it when they release one? Why is it that Microsoft has no problem with me removing their software from a store bought rig pre installed with windows under a CONTRACT by dell and put linux on it instead?? How come I am allowed to take out the Video card and put a different one in?
Getting into decryption of code is a bit more grey. As far as I understand it, you are allowed to decrypt for your own use, But are NOT allowed to distribute the encryption keys or other copyrighted material.
The TP hack does NOT contain ANY nintendo owned source code. Its written by bushing, and does NOT use any encryption information that he descovered. So he is distributing his own code. He has authorized me to run his code on ANY machine that I want. ANd, since nintendo can NOT go after me for putting a different OS or PATCHES on a peice of hardware that I own, I CAN run TP hack legally on my Wii.
SOmewhere you decided that Bushing was distributing the code that he decoded. If he is, then YES, he is doing illegal things that ninty "COULD" prosecute for.
copyright was maybe the wrong word. He is the one who wrote the code, so he is the one who has the rights to the code.
I dont live in the US, so I am not totally up on what the "laws" are there. The laws where I live are about to change so its illegal to listen to the radio even unless I keep a tally of what is played so I can send my $1 to each artist they play.
Also, I think I am allowed to build a bomb with gasoline. I am NOT allowed to conspire to "USE" the bomb, or actually perform the act of using it. The problem is, no one is a mind reader, so its hard to decide if I ever intended on using the thing or not. So in most cases they assume I would only build the bomb with the intent to use it, so they use the existence of the bomb to PROVE my intent.
Either way. If I am NOT allowed to do what I want with hardware that I buy why is it that Nintendo is NOT able to force me to update it when they release one? Why is it that Microsoft has no problem with me removing their software from a store bought rig pre installed with windows under a CONTRACT by dell and put linux on it instead?? How come I am allowed to take out the Video card and put a different one in?
Getting into decryption of code is a bit more grey. As far as I understand it, you are allowed to decrypt for your own use, But are NOT allowed to distribute the encryption keys or other copyrighted material.
The TP hack does NOT contain ANY nintendo owned source code. Its written by bushing, and does NOT use any encryption information that he descovered. So he is distributing his own code. He has authorized me to run his code on ANY machine that I want. ANd, since nintendo can NOT go after me for putting a different OS or PATCHES on a peice of hardware that I own, I CAN run TP hack legally on my Wii.
SOmewhere you decided that Bushing was distributing the code that he decoded. If he is, then YES, he is doing illegal things that ninty "COULD" prosecute for.
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Re: ISOHaven - 2008-07-21 |
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» WTF!?!?!?!?!
You don't get it. I even pasted the quote for you to read. It doesn't have anything to do with him writing his own code. He is bypassing protection. That is a NO NO.
Also, I said you can't do "whatever you want" to a consumer good. I did NOT say you couldn't do anything to it. So your examples of removing software and changing video cards is moot. What I said does NOT equate to someone NOT being able to change their car radio.... come on! Get real.
As for the laws in your country...screw that. What country is it? I'd like to stay the hell away from it. You can legally build bombs? Sorry, but your country is insane.
You don't get it. I even pasted the quote for you to read. It doesn't have anything to do with him writing his own code. He is bypassing protection. That is a NO NO.
Also, I said you can't do "whatever you want" to a consumer good. I did NOT say you couldn't do anything to it. So your examples of removing software and changing video cards is moot. What I said does NOT equate to someone NOT being able to change their car radio.... come on! Get real.
As for the laws in your country...screw that. What country is it? I'd like to stay the hell away from it. You can legally build bombs? Sorry, but your country is insane.
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by Stinky_1 - 2008-07-21 |
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» ......
I am still trying to figure out how we got from descrambling protection on a video game system to threatening national security?
If you read closely I said that the act of building the bomb is "techincally" (ok, I just added the technically part) ok. But that since they can NOT read minds they assume that the existance of the bomb PROVES intent to use it. Which is a big no no.
What about the war buffs that have grenades in their display cases? Hoe often do you read about how the grenade was actually still live? They dont get hauled off to jail because they had an explosive (illegal). Then get it properly de activated and returned to them. This is because they have reasonable grounds that the person never intended to actually use it for harm.
It "could" be possible that someone built a bomb with no intention to use it for harm. But thats very difficult to prove until he uses it for harm.
Either way, I still fail to see the point.
All I am trying to say is that once I own a peice of hardware I can do whatever I want with it. I can install linux on it, I can use it to cook my toast, I can try to watch tv with it. I can install patches, fixes, or otherwise at my descretion.
Where the "legal" problem comes in to play is if you use it for illegal purposes. Such as, running unsigned code on your system where they specifically locked it out against such.
uh oh, did I just prove you right?
(looks for the smilies button).
I am still trying to figure out how we got from descrambling protection on a video game system to threatening national security?
If you read closely I said that the act of building the bomb is "techincally" (ok, I just added the technically part) ok. But that since they can NOT read minds they assume that the existance of the bomb PROVES intent to use it. Which is a big no no.
What about the war buffs that have grenades in their display cases? Hoe often do you read about how the grenade was actually still live? They dont get hauled off to jail because they had an explosive (illegal). Then get it properly de activated and returned to them. This is because they have reasonable grounds that the person never intended to actually use it for harm.
It "could" be possible that someone built a bomb with no intention to use it for harm. But thats very difficult to prove until he uses it for harm.
Either way, I still fail to see the point.
All I am trying to say is that once I own a peice of hardware I can do whatever I want with it. I can install linux on it, I can use it to cook my toast, I can try to watch tv with it. I can install patches, fixes, or otherwise at my descretion.
Where the "legal" problem comes in to play is if you use it for illegal purposes. Such as, running unsigned code on your system where they specifically locked it out against such.
uh oh, did I just prove you right?
(looks for the smilies button).
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Re: ISOHaven - 2008-07-21 |
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» WTF!?!?!?!?!
1. Please learn how to use the reply button.
2. I stand firm on the bomb issue. In the US it is NOT legal for a civilian to have possession of an explosive device without a license or permit.
3. Maybe in your country you can do whatever you want, but like I said, in the US and many other countries you CAN NOT do WHATEVER you want.
I gave you the quote to US LAW. It is was it is.
1. Please learn how to use the reply button.
2. I stand firm on the bomb issue. In the US it is NOT legal for a civilian to have possession of an explosive device without a license or permit.
3. Maybe in your country you can do whatever you want, but like I said, in the US and many other countries you CAN NOT do WHATEVER you want.
I gave you the quote to US LAW. It is was it is.
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Re: Goglu666 - 2008-07-22 |
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» Explanation
It's simple, the security is like a fence on a private property with the big letters "DO NOT CROSS THE FENCE". While you can jump over it and back outside without any dammage, it's illegal to do so.
It's simple, the security is like a fence on a private property with the big letters "DO NOT CROSS THE FENCE". While you can jump over it and back outside without any dammage, it's illegal to do so.
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Re: Mister Common Sense - 2008-07-22 |
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» .
"I stand firm on the bomb issue. In the US it is NOT legal for a civilian to have possession of an explosive device without a license or permit."
What about fireworks? They explode. You FAIL again. High explosives require a liscense, not ANY explosive.
"I stand firm on the bomb issue. In the US it is NOT legal for a civilian to have possession of an explosive device without a license or permit."
What about fireworks? They explode. You FAIL again. High explosives require a liscense, not ANY explosive.
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Re: ISOHaven - 2008-07-22 |
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» WTF!?!?!?!?!
Fireworks are not considered an "explosive device".
Only an idiot like yourself would attempt such a pathetic "one up".
Fireworks are not considered an "explosive device".
Only an idiot like yourself would attempt such a pathetic "one up".
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Re: Mister Common Sense - 2008-07-22 |
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» wha?
A device (like a firecracker) that explodes is not considered an explosive device?
I hope I don't need to explain how little sense that makes.
Explosives are divided into different classes, and no, iso-braindead doesn't decide that.
A device (like a firecracker) that explodes is not considered an explosive device?
I hope I don't need to explain how little sense that makes.
Explosives are divided into different classes, and no, iso-braindead doesn't decide that.
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Re: ISOHaven - 2008-07-22 |
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» WTF!?!?!?!?!
Too bad you're a fool then. Like I said:
Only an idiot like yourself would attempt such a pathetic "one up".
Everyone else is able to follow along. So why can't you?
Too bad you're a fool then. Like I said:
Only an idiot like yourself would attempt such a pathetic "one up".
Everyone else is able to follow along. So why can't you?
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Re: Xastabus - 2008-07-28 |
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» ...
MCS is somewhat right, fireworks are a class of explosive device, however he misses the point entirely.
"Explosives are divided into different classes,"
That is true, but you fail to take the concept to an appropriate conclusion. There are certain classes of explosives that unlicensed civilians are not allowed to own, operate, or manufacture. Furthermore, depending on where you live it is actually illegal to own or purchase fireworks. Does that stop people from buying fireworks out of state and using them? Typically not, but you're less likely to get in trouble for using a few roman candles and spinning flowers than if you were producing pipe bombs in your garage.
If it's illegal to use fireworks of any kind without a license in your area, you aren't immune from being arrested just because everyone else is doing it.
In the same way, by using most consumer devices you agree to the End User License Agreement (EULA) which typically says you will not circumvent copy protection or security measures and that doing so voids your license and exposes you to the possibility of legal action.
However, on another matter I believe there has been an addendum to copyright law that allows the circumvention of copy protection on products that are no longer commercially viable. In other words, if the copyright holder no longer has an interest in the property or is no longer in business it is ok to copy or alter the product so it may run on hardware it wasn't intended for. I believe this measure is intended to protect consumer investment and mitigate the effects of product obsolescence.
I'm sure most people would agree that if I own a license for some software I should be able to use it even if the hardware it was originally developed for becomes extinct.
... wow have I gotten off topic... /rant
MCS is somewhat right, fireworks are a class of explosive device, however he misses the point entirely.
"Explosives are divided into different classes,"
That is true, but you fail to take the concept to an appropriate conclusion. There are certain classes of explosives that unlicensed civilians are not allowed to own, operate, or manufacture. Furthermore, depending on where you live it is actually illegal to own or purchase fireworks. Does that stop people from buying fireworks out of state and using them? Typically not, but you're less likely to get in trouble for using a few roman candles and spinning flowers than if you were producing pipe bombs in your garage.
If it's illegal to use fireworks of any kind without a license in your area, you aren't immune from being arrested just because everyone else is doing it.
In the same way, by using most consumer devices you agree to the End User License Agreement (EULA) which typically says you will not circumvent copy protection or security measures and that doing so voids your license and exposes you to the possibility of legal action.
However, on another matter I believe there has been an addendum to copyright law that allows the circumvention of copy protection on products that are no longer commercially viable. In other words, if the copyright holder no longer has an interest in the property or is no longer in business it is ok to copy or alter the product so it may run on hardware it wasn't intended for. I believe this measure is intended to protect consumer investment and mitigate the effects of product obsolescence.
I'm sure most people would agree that if I own a license for some software I should be able to use it even if the hardware it was originally developed for becomes extinct.
... wow have I gotten off topic... /rant
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Re: ISOHaven - 2008-07-28 |
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» WTF!?!?!?!?!
I guess coming from a military background "explosive device" has different meaning.
In the military "explosive device" also defines intent. Fireworks are not intended to kill or cause damage in anyway.
However I agree as well, "he misses the point entirely."
I guess coming from a military background "explosive device" has different meaning.
In the military "explosive device" also defines intent. Fireworks are not intended to kill or cause damage in anyway.
However I agree as well, "he misses the point entirely."
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by Binary - 2008-07-21 |
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» ...
cool but no good games.
cool but no good games.
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Re: fingahs - 2008-07-22 |
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» true
sooooo true
sooooo true
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by matster101 - 2008-07-21 |
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» what a interesting debate
yes pirating is wrong. And yes circumventing copyright protection is wrong even if its your own code. But if i have copied games at my home and don't submit them online or to any third party how are they going to know I have them. We have choices in life we cant just do anything we want. But honestly if your not selling the pirated material and only using it yourself theres really nothing they can do about it unless they have cameras in every home in the world. Also like gamecube wii sucks who cares if you can pirate them
yes pirating is wrong. And yes circumventing copyright protection is wrong even if its your own code. But if i have copied games at my home and don't submit them online or to any third party how are they going to know I have them. We have choices in life we cant just do anything we want. But honestly if your not selling the pirated material and only using it yourself theres really nothing they can do about it unless they have cameras in every home in the world. Also like gamecube wii sucks who cares if you can pirate them
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Re: fingahs - 2008-07-22 |
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» the userbase feels piracy
i would say it's reflected in the price but that would be bullsh*t cuz we would still pay though the nose for games without pirated games available. how it actually hurts the userbase is the fact that although nintendo would sell more consoles due to piracy(psp style), developers would be less inclined to create titles for it(psp style/dreamcast style) if iso's could be run without a modchip. at least with a modchip it voids your warranty meaning you cant get hardware fixed by nintendo if it fail's. so not costing them money fixing modded machines. apart from the fact that piracy is infectious and softmodded iso playing wii's would become epidemic because it's easy to hack for HBchannel effectivly wiping out the wii. wii sucks purely based on games line up, yes the graphics aint upto todays standard but the controller is proper next gen. i'm bored of playing with pads now after 25+ years playing with everything from a paddle through kempston joystick,to ps1/2 xbox1/360 now wii mote feels more natural and is quite fun i just hope nintendo retire mario and zelda soon(they wont) and let third party titles rule the wii cuz mario is older than me and twilight princess was bought for one reason only and it wernt to play it, i lost interest with zelda at OoT. gamecube was actually the better hardware machine last time and it lost, so nintendo learned console wars are not about hardware but are about hype. ps2 did better because of hype, xbox was better concept and more grown up thus spawning HDD's in this gen of consoles
i would say it's reflected in the price but that would be bullsh*t cuz we would still pay though the nose for games without pirated games available. how it actually hurts the userbase is the fact that although nintendo would sell more consoles due to piracy(psp style), developers would be less inclined to create titles for it(psp style/dreamcast style) if iso's could be run without a modchip. at least with a modchip it voids your warranty meaning you cant get hardware fixed by nintendo if it fail's. so not costing them money fixing modded machines. apart from the fact that piracy is infectious and softmodded iso playing wii's would become epidemic because it's easy to hack for HBchannel effectivly wiping out the wii. wii sucks purely based on games line up, yes the graphics aint upto todays standard but the controller is proper next gen. i'm bored of playing with pads now after 25+ years playing with everything from a paddle through kempston joystick,to ps1/2 xbox1/360 now wii mote feels more natural and is quite fun i just hope nintendo retire mario and zelda soon(they wont) and let third party titles rule the wii cuz mario is older than me and twilight princess was bought for one reason only and it wernt to play it, i lost interest with zelda at OoT. gamecube was actually the better hardware machine last time and it lost, so nintendo learned console wars are not about hardware but are about hype. ps2 did better because of hype, xbox was better concept and more grown up thus spawning HDD's in this gen of consoles
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by Mister Common Sense - 2008-07-22 |
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» Piracy could be good for the Wii
Since the games are total trash, Nintendo not making as much money would definately get their attention. They might think they need to finally put EFFORT into their games.
Since the games are total trash, Nintendo not making as much money would definately get their attention. They might think they need to finally put EFFORT into their games.
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Re: JeimuzuWii - 2008-07-22 |
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» Not suprising...
Another baseless statement filled with hatred and ignorance. Way to be consistent.
Another baseless statement filled with hatred and ignorance. Way to be consistent.
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by jbondsr - 2008-07-22 |
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» Why would he do this?
Ok.
Let me first start by saying that I appreciate all that Bushing has done up to this point for the homebrew scene.
If he's found an exploit, he's NOT obligated to tell us what it is. He can tell whoever he wants.
What I don't understand is, if it was his original intention to tell Nintendo about it to try and close the potential security risk, why tell the community about it?
And, if it truly was his intention to release it if someone from Nintendo didn't contact him, then why not wait until that time to inform the community about the security hole?
Why would he dangle it over our heads, just to take it away?
Ok.
Let me first start by saying that I appreciate all that Bushing has done up to this point for the homebrew scene.
If he's found an exploit, he's NOT obligated to tell us what it is. He can tell whoever he wants.
What I don't understand is, if it was his original intention to tell Nintendo about it to try and close the potential security risk, why tell the community about it?
And, if it truly was his intention to release it if someone from Nintendo didn't contact him, then why not wait until that time to inform the community about the security hole?
Why would he dangle it over our heads, just to take it away?
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Re: Stinky_1 - 2008-07-22 |
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» ......
If I found a hole like this in the porgramming AND I felt morally obligated to let ninty know (like Bushing does) then I would probably do it the exact same way.
My reasoning would be just so everyone knew that I was smart, and figured it out.
OR
I would do it so that everyone knew it was possible, and maybe they could figure it out. So this way I could sleep with a clean conscience, but still know that an ISO loader would actually see the light of day.
Thing is, one way or another there WILL be an iso loader on the wii. Bushings discovery just makes it so that it can be done right off a disk without a mod chip. I am not interested in one of those. What I would lOVE to see is a HDD enabled ISO loader. Then I can have all my legal originals sitting on a shelf far out of reach of the kids, and have the HDD plugged into the back of the wii to load all the games off.
I used to feel sorry for ISOHaven being constantly bombarded by Mrcommon sense. But I am starting to see how much FUN it can be to get him excited. If ninty cant make a game to keep me entertained then I guess I always know I just need to post on here about something and ISOhaven will jump all over me. Thats good for HOURS of entertainment.
If I found a hole like this in the porgramming AND I felt morally obligated to let ninty know (like Bushing does) then I would probably do it the exact same way.
My reasoning would be just so everyone knew that I was smart, and figured it out.
OR
I would do it so that everyone knew it was possible, and maybe they could figure it out. So this way I could sleep with a clean conscience, but still know that an ISO loader would actually see the light of day.
Thing is, one way or another there WILL be an iso loader on the wii. Bushings discovery just makes it so that it can be done right off a disk without a mod chip. I am not interested in one of those. What I would lOVE to see is a HDD enabled ISO loader. Then I can have all my legal originals sitting on a shelf far out of reach of the kids, and have the HDD plugged into the back of the wii to load all the games off.
I used to feel sorry for ISOHaven being constantly bombarded by Mrcommon sense. But I am starting to see how much FUN it can be to get him excited. If ninty cant make a game to keep me entertained then I guess I always know I just need to post on here about something and ISOhaven will jump all over me. Thats good for HOURS of entertainment.
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Re: ISOHaven - 2008-07-22 |
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» WTF!?!?!?!?!
As long as you don't lie or attempt to post opinion as fact then myself and anyone else wont care.
You're just ticked because I called you on your BS. I gave you a COPY AND PASTE of US law and you attempt to discuss how the law states something other then what it is? That's just lame.
Here's an outcome of my "jumping" on you:
"copyright was maybe the wrong word."
It caused you to turn on your brain and actually THINK before posting. It made you RESPONSIBLE for your words and you took action to correct yourself.
See, some good came out of it.
As long as you don't lie or attempt to post opinion as fact then myself and anyone else wont care.
You're just ticked because I called you on your BS. I gave you a COPY AND PASTE of US law and you attempt to discuss how the law states something other then what it is? That's just lame.
Here's an outcome of my "jumping" on you:
"copyright was maybe the wrong word."
It caused you to turn on your brain and actually THINK before posting. It made you RESPONSIBLE for your words and you took action to correct yourself.
See, some good came out of it.
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by Stinky_1 - 2008-07-22 |
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» ....
I'm sorry Masa. Can you ever forgive me??
Anything ANYONE posts on a public forum is opinion. I dont usually see much "facts" posted by anyone. You stated your opinion and tried to back it up with a C/P from some US law somewhere. Does that make you right? Not really. Because if he went to court he could find some loop hole that proved he WAS allowed to do what he has been doing. You forget that laws are written so dumb that most of the time you can get off for something.
And, I still maintain that he owns the copyright to ANYTHING that he makes. You dont have to go to the copy right department and file for it. Intellectual property is covered as soon as it is written. Technically you own the copyright to the words you typed above me. Just as I "could" sue you for using MY exact sentance in your post.
Am I going to? Not really.
My point in the beggining and still is, that ninty would NOT waste their time trying to take him to court for what he has done. And if they did there would be a good chance he could get off. Can he for SURE get off? Who knows, I am not a judge and I doubt you are either. So arguing about it is a moot point.
But since one of us here has an inferiority complex, and some sord of "god syndrome" Ill back down so your tharapist does not have so much to sort through to get you "normal" again.
I can see whats next, youll bash my country a bit more, take advantage of my command of the english language, perhaps pick on my spelling, grammar, or otherwise. Then start saying how right you are some more as if your speak only truth, and finally top it all off with "havnt you figured out how to use the reply button yet!?!?!?!?!?!"
Now tell me something I dont know, or give it a rest.
I'm sorry Masa. Can you ever forgive me??
Anything ANYONE posts on a public forum is opinion. I dont usually see much "facts" posted by anyone. You stated your opinion and tried to back it up with a C/P from some US law somewhere. Does that make you right? Not really. Because if he went to court he could find some loop hole that proved he WAS allowed to do what he has been doing. You forget that laws are written so dumb that most of the time you can get off for something.
And, I still maintain that he owns the copyright to ANYTHING that he makes. You dont have to go to the copy right department and file for it. Intellectual property is covered as soon as it is written. Technically you own the copyright to the words you typed above me. Just as I "could" sue you for using MY exact sentance in your post.
Am I going to? Not really.
My point in the beggining and still is, that ninty would NOT waste their time trying to take him to court for what he has done. And if they did there would be a good chance he could get off. Can he for SURE get off? Who knows, I am not a judge and I doubt you are either. So arguing about it is a moot point.
But since one of us here has an inferiority complex, and some sord of "god syndrome" Ill back down so your tharapist does not have so much to sort through to get you "normal" again.
I can see whats next, youll bash my country a bit more, take advantage of my command of the english language, perhaps pick on my spelling, grammar, or otherwise. Then start saying how right you are some more as if your speak only truth, and finally top it all off with "havnt you figured out how to use the reply button yet!?!?!?!?!?!"
Now tell me something I dont know, or give it a rest.
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Re: ISOHaven - 2008-07-22 |
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» WTF!?!?!?!?!
"Anything ANYONE posts on a public forum is opinion. I dont usually see much "facts" posted by anyone."
Are you serious? Posting actual data and...well..facts! People post facts all the time.
"You stated your opinion and tried to back it up with a C/P from some US law somewhere. Does that make you right? Not really."
100 percent right. Did you want the link? US law is US law. Only an idiot would claim otherwise. Now if you want to discuss the actual law that would be a REAL convo. But no, you just claim that law means nothing. Lame.
"Because if he went to court he could find some loop hole that proved he WAS allowed to do what he has been doing."
WRONG! There have already been cases as such and they have LOST!
"You forget that laws are written so dumb that most of the time you can get off for something."
While there might be some truth to that. That does NOTHING to prove these laws do not exist.
"And, I still maintain that he owns the copyright to ANYTHING that he makes."
That's YOUR ignorance and no one else's. You can think that all you want and it's only going to make you look like a fool. But thanks for letting us know that you only believe what you make up in your head.
"You dont have to go to the copy right department and file for it."
Yes, you do. What magical word do you live in?
"Intellectual property is covered as soon as it is written."
Very good!!! btw, "intellectual property" and copyright are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
"Technically you own the copyright to the words you typed above me."
Wow, you have no clue. Unless this is more of your opinion? Your opinion would then be WRONG.
"Just as I "could" sue you for using MY exact sentance in your post. "
No, you could not.
"Am I going to? Not really."
Good thing.
"My point in the beggining and still is, that ninty would NOT waste their time trying to take him to court for what he has done."
Why didn't you just say that in the first place? Why did you have go into all that other crap that was inaccurate? He contacted Nintendo. Why would they sue him? You're not making any sense anyway.
"And if they did there would be a good chance he could get off."
This is based on your vast experience eh?
"Can he for SURE get off? Who knows, I am not a judge and I doubt you are either. So arguing about it is a moot point."
I'm not arguing about this. I argue all your other inaccurate comments.
"But since one of us here has an inferiority complex, and some sord of "god syndrome" Ill back down so your tharapist does not have so much to sort through to get you "normal" again."
That's why you back down? I figured it was because you have nothing to back you up.
"I can see whats next, youll bash my country a bit more"
How can I bash your country? You never told me what country you lived in. So that would make my comments about your country as non biased as they get. Provided you actually knew what you where talking about. Which I doubt. I stand firm on my comment. If your country allows it's citizen to build whatever type of bombs they want then yes I want to stay the hell away from your country. That's not bashing it.
"take advantage of my command of the english language"
When did I do that?
"perhaps pick on my spelling, grammar, or otherwise."
Nope, never did once. I'll do it to Mr. Common Douche Bag because he claims to have graduated from the BEST Tech School around.
"Then start saying how right you are some more as if your speak only truth"
Well, I DO only speak truth. I don't lie. However, my arguments above are backed by FACTUAL US LAW. Get over it.
"and finally top it all off with "havnt you figured out how to use the reply button yet!?!?!?!?!?!""
Well, why haven't you? First you where asked nicely. Then you continued half a dozen times to not use it. So now you just look like an ass.
"Now tell me something I dont know, or give it a rest."
I've told you PLENTY you didn't already know. Go learn what a copy
"Anything ANYONE posts on a public forum is opinion. I dont usually see much "facts" posted by anyone."
Are you serious? Posting actual data and...well..facts! People post facts all the time.
"You stated your opinion and tried to back it up with a C/P from some US law somewhere. Does that make you right? Not really."
100 percent right. Did you want the link? US law is US law. Only an idiot would claim otherwise. Now if you want to discuss the actual law that would be a REAL convo. But no, you just claim that law means nothing. Lame.
"Because if he went to court he could find some loop hole that proved he WAS allowed to do what he has been doing."
WRONG! There have already been cases as such and they have LOST!
"You forget that laws are written so dumb that most of the time you can get off for something."
While there might be some truth to that. That does NOTHING to prove these laws do not exist.
"And, I still maintain that he owns the copyright to ANYTHING that he makes."
That's YOUR ignorance and no one else's. You can think that all you want and it's only going to make you look like a fool. But thanks for letting us know that you only believe what you make up in your head.
"You dont have to go to the copy right department and file for it."
Yes, you do. What magical word do you live in?
"Intellectual property is covered as soon as it is written."
Very good!!! btw, "intellectual property" and copyright are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
"Technically you own the copyright to the words you typed above me."
Wow, you have no clue. Unless this is more of your opinion? Your opinion would then be WRONG.
"Just as I "could" sue you for using MY exact sentance in your post. "
No, you could not.
"Am I going to? Not really."
Good thing.
"My point in the beggining and still is, that ninty would NOT waste their time trying to take him to court for what he has done."
Why didn't you just say that in the first place? Why did you have go into all that other crap that was inaccurate? He contacted Nintendo. Why would they sue him? You're not making any sense anyway.
"And if they did there would be a good chance he could get off."
This is based on your vast experience eh?
"Can he for SURE get off? Who knows, I am not a judge and I doubt you are either. So arguing about it is a moot point."
I'm not arguing about this. I argue all your other inaccurate comments.
"But since one of us here has an inferiority complex, and some sord of "god syndrome" Ill back down so your tharapist does not have so much to sort through to get you "normal" again."
That's why you back down? I figured it was because you have nothing to back you up.
"I can see whats next, youll bash my country a bit more"
How can I bash your country? You never told me what country you lived in. So that would make my comments about your country as non biased as they get. Provided you actually knew what you where talking about. Which I doubt. I stand firm on my comment. If your country allows it's citizen to build whatever type of bombs they want then yes I want to stay the hell away from your country. That's not bashing it.
"take advantage of my command of the english language"
When did I do that?
"perhaps pick on my spelling, grammar, or otherwise."
Nope, never did once. I'll do it to Mr. Common Douche Bag because he claims to have graduated from the BEST Tech School around.
"Then start saying how right you are some more as if your speak only truth"
Well, I DO only speak truth. I don't lie. However, my arguments above are backed by FACTUAL US LAW. Get over it.
"and finally top it all off with "havnt you figured out how to use the reply button yet!?!?!?!?!?!""
Well, why haven't you? First you where asked nicely. Then you continued half a dozen times to not use it. So now you just look like an ass.
"Now tell me something I dont know, or give it a rest."
I've told you PLENTY you didn't already know. Go learn what a copy
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Re: ISOHaven - 2008-07-22 |
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» WTF!?!?!?!?!
"Now tell me something I dont know, or give it a rest."
I've told you PLENTY you didn't already know. Go learn what a copyright is then come back and attempt a REAL convo.
"Now tell me something I dont know, or give it a rest."
I've told you PLENTY you didn't already know. Go learn what a copyright is then come back and attempt a REAL convo.
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Re: dragonracer900 - 2008-07-22 |
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» lol
apparently your ranting just got annoying. It seems by trying to sound smart, you are just lacking in facts. Seems like your panties r in a bunch after ISOHaven corrected you. Even if hes wrong why are you trying to post correctment/bashing comments towards him. Who cares.
Btw its good for someone to report a possible exploit even when its illegal to snoop around inside any consumer product.
apparently your ranting just got annoying. It seems by trying to sound smart, you are just lacking in facts. Seems like your panties r in a bunch after ISOHaven corrected you. Even if hes wrong why are you trying to post correctment/bashing comments towards him. Who cares.
Btw its good for someone to report a possible exploit even when its illegal to snoop around inside any consumer product.
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Re: ISOHaven - 2008-07-22 |
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» WTF!?!?!?!?!
In the end, that's all that matters!
I hope they do bust the Wii wide open. Make it able to play simple CD-R copies. That way, when the Wii continues to be successful, all the DreamCast knuckleheads who think piracy killed their console can finally shut the hell up!
In the end, that's all that matters!
I hope they do bust the Wii wide open. Make it able to play simple CD-R copies. That way, when the Wii continues to be successful, all the DreamCast knuckleheads who think piracy killed their console can finally shut the hell up!
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Re: ISOHaven - 2008-07-22 |
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» WTF!?!?!?!?!
Oops, correction....DVD-R copies.
Oops, correction....DVD-R copies.
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Re: Xastabus - 2008-07-28 |
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» Dreamcast
Piracy didn't kill Dreamcast, a history of failed Sega products and PlayStation2 led the DC to its regretfully early demise.
Yeah, I chipped my DC, but that was to play imports, not to steal from Sega.
Piracy didn't kill Dreamcast, a history of failed Sega products and PlayStation2 led the DC to its regretfully early demise.
Yeah, I chipped my DC, but that was to play imports, not to steal from Sega.
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by DigiTalDeaD - 2008-08-10 |
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» Dreamcast
I got a boot disk for mine, didn't want to crack open my little box of magic. Had fun playing numerous snes/gba roms.
I got a boot disk for mine, didn't want to crack open my little box of magic. Had fun playing numerous snes/gba roms.
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Re: DigiTalDeaD - 2008-08-10 |
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» Whoops
Sorry i also cannot remember to use the reply button >.< What an arse. Yeah sega didn't really prepare themselves properly against the success of sony, although i love most of sega's games. Nintendo and sega make most of my favourite games, but i'd rather have a proper case'n'all game to show off as a collection rather than a cd/dvd case with home made covers.
Piracy doesn't affect the gaming industry as much as they tell you. There will always be a majority of gamers who prefer the real thing, for morality reasons or otherwise. Those who back-up their own games for their own use are doing no harm whatsoever in my opinion, but as a stoner i'm probably wrong.
Sorry i also cannot remember to use the reply button >.< What an arse. Yeah sega didn't really prepare themselves properly against the success of sony, although i love most of sega's games. Nintendo and sega make most of my favourite games, but i'd rather have a proper case'n'all game to show off as a collection rather than a cd/dvd case with home made covers.
Piracy doesn't affect the gaming industry as much as they tell you. There will always be a majority of gamers who prefer the real thing, for morality reasons or otherwise. Those who back-up their own games for their own use are doing no harm whatsoever in my opinion, but as a stoner i'm probably wrong.
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